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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.16 23:27:00 - [1] A coalition headed by goonswarm, D2, AAA and RA accusing BoB of fighting 'dirty' and using 'metagaming' is ridiculous. All of those 4 entities are far more guilty than BoB ever could be. Goonswarm: Plan a Node crash to kill titan in production (dont even begin to claim you could have got past the 450 person 40 cap ship bubble camp any other way) RA/AAA : 30+ Accounts banned for 6 months of complex exploiting. RA have had other bans for Smartbomb-spawn chaining back when that was possible, and bans for using carrier overload exploits. D2 : Using IPS from the official german eve site to find spies! Jesus... Pretty much every alliance in game (maybe exception MC) fights dirty and uses some metagaming to achieve their ends. This whole anti-bob ****storm is just a cleverly thought up Propeganda campaign by one or two individuals using ignorance and repetition of lies to achieve there ends. There are still people claiming this titan was killed with a passive targetter exploit THAT DOESNT EXIST (remember to set a POS pw next time VOTF).
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.16 23:27:00 - [2] A coalition headed by goonswarm, D2, AAA and RA accusing BoB of fighting 'dirty' and using 'metagaming' is ridiculous. All of those 4 entities are far more guilty than BoB ever could be. Goonswarm: Plan a Node crash to kill titan in production (dont even begin to claim you could have got past the 450 person 40 cap ship bubble camp any other way) RA/AAA : 30+ Accounts banned for 6 months of complex exploiting. RA have had other bans for Smartbomb-spawn chaining back when that was possible, and bans for using carrier overload exploits. D2 : Using IPS from the official german eve site to find spies! Jesus... Pretty much every alliance in game (maybe exception MC) fights dirty and uses some metagaming to achieve their ends. This whole anti-bob ****storm is just a cleverly thought up Propeganda campaign by one or two individuals using ignorance and repetition of lies to achieve there ends. There are still people claiming this titan was killed with a passive targetter exploit THAT DOESNT EXIST (remember to set a POS pw next time VOTF).
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:10:00 - [3] Originally by: Kamikaze Loco So d2 did a big mistake and underestimate their enemy. Impressed by BoB! This is communist style intel! BoB might even be worth of a spot in AAA if they continue like this. First nice post from your side. Respect
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:10:00 - [4] Originally by: Kamikaze Loco So d2 did a big mistake and underestimate their enemy. Impressed by BoB! This is communist style intel! BoB might even be worth of a spot in AAA if they continue like this. First nice post from your side. Respect
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:18:00 - [5] Originally by: Gull De'Kuntos CHEATS - Thats not the opinion of my corp, that's FACT We have seen extensive screenshots showing you are wrong. Nice FACT.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:18:00 - [6] Originally by: Gull De'Kuntos CHEATS - Thats not the opinion of my corp, that's FACT We have seen extensive screenshots showing you are wrong. Nice FACT.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:19:00 - [7] Edited by: Edde Bebbi on 17/02/2007 00:15:43 Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse Originally by: Supay Next time, for all those D2 saying how lame BoB were, maybe consider what its like when it happens to you. I've seen dirty trick after dirty trick pulled throughout this war so far and noone in any of the alliances involved is innocent, so just stop crying like little girls and live with it, as you are as dirty as the rest of them. Point me to a similar lame event caused by d2. Memory is extremely selective. German Official .de forums being used to IP-fish and snag BoB spies. Wow... That was hard woody!
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:19:00 - [8] Edited by: Edde Bebbi on 17/02/2007 00:15:43 Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse Originally by: Supay Next time, for all those D2 saying how lame BoB were, maybe consider what its like when it happens to you. I've seen dirty trick after dirty trick pulled throughout this war so far and noone in any of the alliances involved is innocent, so just stop crying like little girls and live with it, as you are as dirty as the rest of them. Point me to a similar lame event caused by d2. Memory is extremely selective. German Official .de forums being used to IP-fish and snag BoB spies. Wow... That was hard woody!
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:20:00 - [9] Originally by: Portios Smith So let me get this straight, I am playing a game where the best way to win at PvP is to manipulate game mechanics so that I can pwn n00bs once they are offline. May be we should change the name to EVE Offline CCP this is laughable. /me shopping for a new game where the fighting is done online Sorry mate, Im a bit mixed up, are you talking about BoB killing D2's Titan or NCA and friends killing LV's one in production? OH WAIT....
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:21:00 - [10] Originally by: Gull De'Kuntos BoD arent cheats? how come they admitted to it then? CHEATS - FACT lol? Proof please?
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:25:00 - [11] Originally by: Gull De'Kuntos Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Gull De'Kuntos BoD arent cheats? how come they admitted to it then? CHEATS - FACT lol? Proof please? "All allegations mentioned above are untrue, except one. Sadly enough, the allegation regarding unlawfully obtained blueprints are, in my case, true. IÆm here, laying out the facts of what happened in June 2006 so this whole issue -- which jeopardized my colleagues, my company and our community -- can be put behind us, I hope for the better" http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=424 cheats - fact A) He was not in BoB when he cheated. He arrived in Bob WITH the BPs B) His char was removed from BoB when he was unveiled C) That very quote specifically says that no NON-DEV member of BoB was involved. So you are wrong.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:27:00 - [12] Originally by: Swift Wind Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Portios Smith So let me get this straight, I am playing a game where the best way to win at PvP is to manipulate game mechanics so that I can pwn n00bs once they are offline. May be we should change the name to EVE Offline CCP this is laughable. /me shopping for a new game where the fighting is done online Sorry mate, Im a bit mixed up, are you talking about BoB killing D2's Titan or NCA and friends killing LV's one in production? OH WAIT.... NCA killed a pilotless flying titan, using game mechanics? Really? Yes. They enterred an impossibly well defended (450 people, 40 cap ships, 200 fighters, 15 large bubbles all on one gate) using t1 ships in huge quantities to crash the node then jumped in before those who had crashed could re log on. Anyone who knows anything about node crashes knows that those jumping in have the advantage by a HUGE amount.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:28:00 - [13] Originally by: sb404 Originally by: Masooma Originally by: Gull De'Kuntos http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=424 cheats - fact I see 1 cheat not an alliance of cheats.. Guilty by association I guess. Knowing and not saying anything is just the same tbh. The Dev blog states that there is no evidence that anyone knew.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:30:00 - [14] Edited by: Edde Bebbi on 17/02/2007 00:26:57 Originally by: Stesha Andreev I have a question, in the Second screen we see a bubble but it doesn't look like a POS more like a dictor bubble. Look at the edges of the bubble. The question is why is there a dictor bubble dropped on a Titan when is immune to electronic warfare? (the sphere launcher is found under EW so I assume it to EW) Was it used to hold the Titan there or was the aggro timer used to keep the offline pilot locked down? Nothing is immune to dictor/Mobile warp disruptors. Not even titans and motherships. Even if they were; the pod isnt!
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:31:00 - [15] Originally by: Swift Wind Originally by: Aeaus Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Gull De'Kuntos CHEATS - Thats not the opinion of my corp, that's FACT We have seen extensive screenshots showing you are wrong. Nice FACT. Who cares about logic when it comes to ranting mindlessly. Time and time again we saw proof that this was an extremely well thought out, and completely brilliant plan, and completely within the rules of the game mechanics. I mean : OMFG HAX! What i don't get is for an Uber PvP alliance, why not PvP? Why not drop one with force? For a titan to fall to gamemechanics is lame, Is it a cheat? That's debateable. Is it xheap, that's not.... For the mightiest ship in the game they sure go down without a fight.... And the LV one your allies killed in production using node crashes to get past the defending force (there was NO FIGHTING AT ALL)
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:33:00 - [16] Originally by: sb404 Originally by: Masooma Originally by: sb404 Originally by: Masooma Originally by: Gull De'Kuntos http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=424 cheats - fact I see 1 cheat not an alliance of cheats.. Guilty by association I guess. Knowing and not saying anything is just the same tbh. I point you to this part: Quote: I wish to make it clear that I acted alone and my co-workers and corp/alliance mates have been cleared of any alleged wrongdoing. cleared by the same instigators that wanted to keep it under wraps. If you're not doing anything this weekend, watch Arlington Road it has a very nice theory on people "that are working alone" I guess we'll have to believe the coin has two sides. "Its a crime. The police and government say its not a crime, the police watchdogs say they are right, the suspects say its not a crime, all the evidence points to it not being a crime, but I, personally, know they are all lying as a FACT."
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:37:00 - [17] Originally by: Portios Smith Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Portios Smith So let me get this straight, I am playing a game where the best way to win at PvP is to manipulate game mechanics so that I can pwn n00bs once they are offline. May be we should change the name to EVE Offline CCP this is laughable. /me shopping for a new game where the fighting is done online Sorry mate, Im a bit mixed up, are you talking about BoB killing D2's Titan or NCA and friends killing LV's one in production? OH WAIT.... Dear BoD alt, Is quite different to storm a system with everyting you got hoping for a an epic fight and the darn game just beeing unable to handle it, to purposely plan the attack of an offline player by abusing game mechanics. We wanted a fight. BoD wanted a cheap titan kill. You didnt want a fight you wanted a nodecrash. If there had been a fight you would have lost heavily. An hour before the main event, 150 Goons jumped into our camp, and managed to kill 4 frigates (one t2) before ALL DYING. If the node hadnt crashed, we would see 800 killmails on the LV boards instead of just 150. Don't kid yourself you could have won without a node crash, because you couldnt and your commanders were relying on that.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:38:00 - [18] Originally by: RedCodeX Edited by: RedCodeX on 17/02/2007 00:31:49 Originally by: Grimeh Edited by: Grimeh on 17/02/2007 00:19:13 Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse Originally by: Supay Next time, for all those D2 saying how lame BoB were, maybe consider what its like when it happens to you. I've seen dirty trick after dirty trick pulled throughout this war so far and noone in any of the alliances involved is innocent, so just stop crying like little girls and live with it, as you are as dirty as the rest of them. Point me to a similar lame event caused by d2. Memory is extremely selective. using non D2 forums on an official eve fan site to gain ip address to match IPs on D2 forums and TS.... We already identified the spy but didn't want to start a witchhunt if he was innocent, so only one specific IP was compared one time and this will not be possible in the future. happy? Thats not what the internal logs posted by Kugutsumen said. They said it was ongoing and multiple people. Unless he forged them? Oh wait you crucified BoB on the same guys evidence...
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:48:00 - [19] Originally by: Rangar Well, this incident shows again, that the only way for BoB to achieve anything is cheating and/or exploiting major problems of the game mechanic. EVE is really going downhill at the moment and if CCP doesn't see this, they will soon have no game anymore. The real players will leave and the remaining cheaters will not be attractive enough to drag new players into the game. Dont you see it, the "downhill" side of the game is the rise of the Goons and people like you, who vaunt as valid tactics anything their side does and screams exploit dev cheat at the other side.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:49:00 - [20] Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Portios Smith Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Portios Smith So let me get this straight, I am playing a game where the best way to win at PvP is to manipulate game mechanics so that I can pwn n00bs once they are offline. May be we should change the name to EVE Offline CCP this is laughable. /me shopping for a new game where the fighting is done online Sorry mate, Im a bit mixed up, are you talking about BoB killing D2's Titan or NCA and friends killing LV's one in production? OH WAIT.... Dear BoD alt, Is quite different to storm a system with everyting you got hoping for a an epic fight and the darn game just beeing unable to handle it, to purposely plan the attack of an offline player by abusing game mechanics. We wanted a fight. BoD wanted a cheap titan kill. You didnt want a fight you wanted a nodecrash. If there had been a fight you would have lost heavily. An hour before the main event, 150 Goons jumped into our camp, and managed to kill 4 frigates (one t2) before ALL DYING. If the node hadnt crashed, we would see 800 killmails on the LV boards instead of just 150. Don't kid yourself you could have won without a node crash, because you couldnt and your commanders were relying on that. Yeah right If the nodes could handle all of us in the local, i can tell you that more than 1 LV titan would get killed then. And why do you think we bring such big numbers to fight?, is it because we will kill LV? or is it to get node crashes? Well the answer is easy, so yes answer 1 is the right one. No, answer 2 is. The Conventional fleet is useless because LV have titans that can DD them UNLESS THE NODE CRASHES. You only brought it (hi Goon noob frigs) to cause a node crash. ITs no coincidence that only t1 ships jumped in the first "CRASH ME" wave.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:53:00 - [21] Originally by: Shirei Originally by: Edde Bebbi You didnt want a fight you wanted a nodecrash. If there had been a fight you would have lost heavily. An hour before the main event, 150 Goons jumped into our camp, and managed to kill 4 frigates (one t2) before ALL DYING. If the node hadnt crashed, we would see 800 killmails on the LV boards instead of just 150. Don't kid yourself you could have won without a node crash, because you couldnt and your commanders were relying on that. So essentially you are saying.. you guys brought a force that so large it was physically impossible to counter except by bringing so many people that the servers become seriously unstable and are then complaining that your opponents actually managed to pull it off? What should they have done? I can hear it on their alliance chat already 'ok guys, the hostiles have 400 people camping, the system can only handle 500 really, so let's just jump in 100 at a time, it's gonna be great'. Yes, thats exactly what I am saying. Lv's camp was too large for any force to beat it by legitimate means. So they used illegitimate ones. Titans are supposed to require a lot of defence. Believe me, 450 people including 40 caps from a 80% Euro TZ alliance at 5am is a LOT of defence. LV had the maximum number of defenders it was possible to have and still have a playable system. By all accounts, LV should have been unassailable. Without nodecrashes, we would have been. But BoBs legitimate (although sneaky) methods are ebil right? Hypocracy Coalition ftw
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 04:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Gouglash Originally by: Torshin Edited by: Torshin on 17/02/2007 03:48:32 Originally by: Dagrin RDM Originally by: BlackDog Rackh'am So, please stop with the cheating accusations and focus on the simple facts. BoB might have been cheating, or they might have not been. The single irrefutable fact remains that they did everything in their power to ensure an AFK-kill. The ones considered master players of this game couldn't take it ingame. They did everything they could do in a non-bannable way to kill this titan while the pilot was out of the game and he infact took some precautions in regards to aggro timer. I don't know about you, but if i was an active player flying with D2 i would be damn proud to have them as allies, because obviously people are scared of them enough to only try and kill their big toys when the pilots are not in front of their keyboards. Sounds right to me. I area with this post to a point. they did everything possible to ensure a afk-kill that is undeniable, the thing i disagree with is that bob would not seize any oppertunity to kill the titan while the pilot is logged on. It is just too hard to kill while the pilot is logged on. Its not like they weren't trying to engage the titan the entire day so the part about only try and kill is incorrect. Hard, but not impossible. RA had the first BoB Titan down to 70% armor when it was in their space, and ti ended up escaping by cynoing out to somewhere else in the same system. A handful of neut fitted BS, and the BoB Titan would have been dead... while logged in. The difference is this was only possible because Molle has massive balls of steel and is willing to engage a 100man gatecamp solo in his titan just using smartbombs (DD still recharging) because he is bored. Even he would probably not do this if he wasnt 100% sure of a suitable jump out cyno. So no, killing a logged on titan who isnt an idiot (have you SEEN the avatars cap recharge with 3 rigs and some relays?) is nigh on impossible.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 05:01:00 - [23] Originally by: ElweSingollo Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Portios Smith Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Portios Smith So let me get this straight, I am playing a game where the best way to win at PvP is to manipulate game mechanics so that I can pwn n00bs once they are offline. May be we should change the name to EVE Offline CCP this is laughable. /me shopping for a new game where the fighting is done online Sorry mate, Im a bit mixed up, are you talking about BoB killing D2's Titan or NCA and friends killing LV's one in production? OH WAIT.... Dear BoD alt, Is quite different to storm a system with everyting you got hoping for a an epic fight and the darn game just beeing unable to handle it, to purposely plan the attack of an offline player by abusing game mechanics. We wanted a fight. BoD wanted a cheap titan kill. You didnt want a fight you wanted a nodecrash. If there had been a fight you would have lost heavily. An hour before the main event, 150 Goons jumped into our camp, and managed to kill 4 frigates (one t2) before ALL DYING. If the node hadnt crashed, we would see 800 killmails on the LV boards instead of just 150. Don't kid yourself you could have won without a node crash, because you couldnt and your commanders were relying on that. Yeah right If the nodes could handle all of us in the local, i can tell you that more than 1 LV titan would get killed then. And why do you think we bring such big numbers to fight?, is it because we will kill LV? or is it to get node crashes? Well the answer is easy, so yes answer 1 is the right one. No, answer 2 is. The Conventional fleet is useless because LV have titans that can DD them UNLESS THE NODE CRASHES. You only brought it (hi Goon noob frigs) to cause a node crash. ITs no coincidence that only t1 ships jumped in the first "CRASH ME" wave. One DD an hour... that can miss yeah that will wtfbbqpwn every fleet there ever was in fact yeah a Titan can win eve on it's own . When there is only one gate to get in by and it has 15 L bubbles preventing warp off, 1 DD an hour = 300 kills.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 05:03:00 - [24] Originally by: Mecinia Lua I feel for D2, I hope the pilot that betrayed them has been punished accordingly with many poddings.... It is obvious that BoB had no intentions of trying to fight the Titan fairly. They had every opportunity to do so and thus chose only to engage it when they had access to metagaming information in which they knew the pilot would have to log off. I can only hope down the road that someone betrays BoB and their allies in a like manner and it costs them as dearly. Chin up D2 at least your fighting the good fight :) How does one fight a titan fairly? Even the CCP endorsed tactic required it be on its own and bumped to buggery!
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 05:23:00 - [25] Originally by: BlackDog Rackh'am Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Mecinia Lua I feel for D2, I hope the pilot that betrayed them has been punished accordingly with many poddings.... It is obvious that BoB had no intentions of trying to fight the Titan fairly. They had every opportunity to do so and thus chose only to engage it when they had access to metagaming information in which they knew the pilot would have to log off. I can only hope down the road that someone betrays BoB and their allies in a like manner and it costs them as dearly. Chin up D2 at least your fighting the good fight :) How does one fight a titan fairly? Even the CCP endorsed tactic required it be on its own and bumped to buggery! When people say fair, they mean within the game rules, that's all. If you take note, you will see that there are reasonable people who don't complain about the existence of spies. What's wrong here is that a certain game mechanic that's meant to enhance/balance the playing experience has been abused to cause damage to a player that is not in the game, can't fight back and has no knowledge of what's happening. To put it simply, a player suffered non-preventable ingame loss while he was not in the game, having also taken some necessary precautions prior to exiting. That's the whole issue, the fact that it was a spy doesn't matter at all. What matters is that a certain game mechanic was abused to yield results different than desired by CCP at the time of its implementation. If i read that EULA/TOS part correctly, it should be classed as an exploit. D2 don't let your pride get the best of your judgement, get someone who's calm enough to petition it, quote the relevant parts of CCP's own rules and escalate the petition to a senior GM if you need to. People were complaining about not getting reimbursed for other things, among which the exploit that involves shooting the wrecks, but recently i learned of a case where the player escalated the petition and got reimbursed. It's not your fault that loopholes exist, just don't pretend it's raining when people p*ss on you and take appropriate action with the GMs. Its not a bug its an intended game mechanic that friendly fire is included in the aggro timer. Since its not a bug, using it cannot be an exploit. Using something for a different purpose than its intention is not an exploit provided it is all done ingame and it does not involve a bug, otherwise you can claim that instas were an exploit, Can mining is an exploit etc etc etc
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 05:24:00 - [26] Originally by: AKULA UrQuan It was a legit (although very cheesy) way of killing a supercap. On the bright side BoB will never be able to throw around the "metagaming" flame on these forums since over the ASCN war and now this war they have proved to be the undisputed masters of this form of gameplay. When have they ever done this? MEtagaming provided it does not break laws has always been embraced by Bob and every other major alliance
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 07:42:00 - [27] Edited by: Edde Bebbi on 17/02/2007 07:39:37 Originally by: Skeltek Quote: 12.14 How do I know whatÆs legal or illegal in the game? Using the game mechanics in any way to achieve an unintended game behavior is exploiting. I think this says it all... Jet can mining. Insta jumps. Istab BSs. Stabbabonds. Purposeful node crashes (actually this SHOULD BE AN EXPLOIT) Its not that simple and we all know it. Everyone is totally misunderstanding the issue. Considerations of players intentions are IRRELEVENT. The fact is: If you are aggroed it is intended game behaviour that you do not disappear!
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 07:55:00 - [28] Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: RedCodeX We already identified the spy but didn't want to start a witchhunt if he was innocent, so only one specific IP was compared one time and this will not be possible in the future. happy? Its okay because it only happened once? I only murdered the guy once guv! Thanks for admitting to cheating once D2. How many times have you cheated and not been found out? That logic is only allowed to be used to flame BoB mate, better keep quiet
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 07:56:00 - [29] Originally by: Yagyu Munemori Abgsolutely Disgusting IMO straight form the EULA, it is clearly an exploit and if not reimbursed im sure alot of ppl will think seriously about cancelling there subscriptions, because crap like this, cheating dirty tactics used like this further more suggests that the whole of BOB is in bed with CCP. People will not stand for this, NO its not a personal attack on bob which im sure alot of ppl will think, nor is it "ppl are only angry cause its bob who got the kill". The fact is that the first 2 titans that have been "killed" in game is by same corp in very simialr UNFAIR, SNEAKY, DIRTY AND IMO DOWN RIGHT CHEATING KIND OF WAYS. CCP please look at the rest of the communities outcries and concerns and reimburst the titan FFS. Please quit now. Once again for the hard-of-thinking. It is an INTENDED game mechanic that if you are aggrod, you have an aggro timer if you log. It is an INTENDED game mechanic that smartbombs can be used to aggro people It is an INTENDED game mechanic that friendly alliance mates can backstab and attack and even kill you. It is an INTENDED game mechanic THEREFORE that friendlies can give you a PvP timer. Therefore there is no exploit.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 08:08:00 - [30] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 17/02/2007 07:55:53 Originally by: Edde Bebbi Once again for the hard-of-thinking. It is an INTENDED game mechanic that if you are aggrod, you have an aggro timer if you log. It is an INTENDED game mechanic that smartbombs can be used to aggro people It is an INTENDED game mechanic that friendly alliance mates can backstab and attack and even kill you. It is an INTENDED game mechanic THEREFORE that friendlies can give you a PvP timer. Therefore there is no exploit. Dude, read what the EULA is saying. If you read it carefully, you will see that even if this was an INTENDED game mechanic, it's still a borked game mechanic that shouldn't be allowed to use ingame. The EULA clearly says that the D2 ship will get reimbursed whatever you noobs are saying. Just read the DAMN EULA. I've read it 10 times, and I've applied 4 years of knowledge of dealing with CCP at every level. You are trying to say that metagaming = exploiting, and that is simply retarded. If the functioning was all intended, then there CAN BE NO EXPLOIT. Just as instajumps were metagaming but wernt an exploit because warping to a BM is supposed to work and BMing 15km off a gate is supposed to work. you cant just say READ THE EULA when it and history supports what i am saying. Make an argument or stfu
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 08:15:00 - [31] Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Edde Bebbi I've read it 10 times, and I've applied 4 years of knowledge of dealing with CCP at every level. You are trying to say that metagaming = exploiting, and that is simply retarded. If the functioning was all intended, then there CAN BE NO EXPLOIT. Just as instajumps were metagaming but wernt an exploit because warping to a BM is supposed to work and BMing 15km off a gate is supposed to work. you cant just say READ THE EULA when it and history supports what i am saying. Make an argument or stfu No you haven't readed it a single time. Just read what i just wrote on the reply before this. If i log off when there is no enemies around me, and don't have an agression timer from an ENEMY, and not friendly shoot, then the ship should not be killed whatever you do. It doesn't get simpler than that. Where does it say that? Where does it say that seemingly FRIENDLIES cant give you an aggression timer? Whats next? Spys are against the EULA too? Cant do damage to + standings ships? You are just making **** up
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 08:17:00 - [32] Originally by: Milena Marich CCP... This IS an obvious exploit, absolutely disgusting from BoD forge. Nice try alt. How is it an exploit?
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 08:20:00 - [33] Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Edde Bebbi I've read it 10 times, and I've applied 4 years of knowledge of dealing with CCP at every level. You are trying to say that metagaming = exploiting, and that is simply retarded. If the functioning was all intended, then there CAN BE NO EXPLOIT. Just as instajumps were metagaming but wernt an exploit because warping to a BM is supposed to work and BMing 15km off a gate is supposed to work. you cant just say READ THE EULA when it and history supports what i am saying. Make an argument or stfu No you haven't readed it a single time. Just read what i just wrote on the reply before this. If i log off when there is no enemies around me, and don't have an agression timer from an ENEMY, and not friendly shoot, then the ship should not be killed whatever you do. It doesn't get simpler than that. Where does it say that? Where does it say that seemingly FRIENDLIES cant give you an aggression timer? Whats next? Spys are against the EULA too? Cant do damage to + standings ships? You are just making ** up Well whatever you say, same peoples in the same corp / alliance should not get an agression timer by a friendly shot. It's not how the agression timer should work. According to who? You? Its always worked this way and it was implemented this way. What you are basically saying is YOU think the mechanics should change, and therefore making use of them as they are is an exploit**. Please feel free to explain otherwise.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 08:21:00 - [34] Originally by: Milena Marich Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Milena Marich CCP... This IS an obvious exploit, absolutely disgusting from BoD forge. Nice try alt. How is it an exploit? Being shot by a "friendly" one second before you log off safely inside a POS is completely the exploit of game mechanics. Why? also how do you know it was 1 second? And it WASNT inside a pos
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 08:31:00 - [35] Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Edde Bebbi I've read it 10 times, and I've applied 4 years of knowledge of dealing with CCP at every level. You are trying to say that metagaming = exploiting, and that is simply retarded. If the functioning was all intended, then there CAN BE NO EXPLOIT. Just as instajumps were metagaming but wernt an exploit because warping to a BM is supposed to work and BMing 15km off a gate is supposed to work. you cant just say READ THE EULA when it and history supports what i am saying. Make an argument or stfu No you haven't readed it a single time. Just read what i just wrote on the reply before this. If i log off when there is no enemies around me, and don't have an agression timer from an ENEMY, and not friendly shoot, then the ship should not be killed whatever you do. It doesn't get simpler than that. Where does it say that? Where does it say that seemingly FRIENDLIES cant give you an aggression timer? Whats next? Spys are against the EULA too? Cant do damage to + standings ships? You are just making ** up Well whatever you say, same peoples in the same corp / alliance should not get an agression timer by a friendly shot. It's not how the agression timer should work. According to who? You? Its always worked this way and it was implemented this way. What you are basically saying is YOU think the mechanics should change, and therefore making use of them as they are is an exploit**. Please feel free to explain otherwise. Noooo no no no no, it was not implented to the game to work in this way. Read again what's written in THIS reply. The EULA is clearly saying that this tactic is against the EULA, is it hard to understand? Listen to me, I will speak slowly The EULA defines the an exploit as "to use the game mechanics in such a way as they were not intended". If friendlies being able to activate the PVP timer was INTENDED, then there is no exploit Nothing you or anyone else has said, or anything in the EULA, states that the PvP timer is NOT intended to apply to people in the same corp or alliance. In fact the devs embracing of spies eg in the GHSC affair show that they ACCEPT that people in the same corp/alliance may be hostile to each other. you need to PROVE that friendly-aggro-timer ISNT intended. If this is the case, then using it knowingly is an exploit. But it IS intended
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 08:39:00 - [36] Originally by: NightmareX 12.1 What is an exploit? The common definition of an exploit is ôto use the game mechanics in such a way as they were not intended for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over other players.ö Due to the ever-changing dynamics involved with maintaining a virtual, persistent world, it can sometimes be difficult or confusing to determine what might be considered an exploit. Though every effort is made to avoid glitches that enable exploits to be used, they are occasionally discovered. Players have the responsibility of understanding how the game works and keeping themselves informed about changes to the game in order to comprehend what is deemed as an exploit. Those who are charged with employing the use of exploits will be reprimanded, which may include temporary suspension or a permanent ban of the account. Professing ignorance that you didnÆt know you were using an exploit will not prevent the enforcement of this rule. Well it doesn't say anything exactly about the agression timer, but the way D2 lost their Titan is after what's written under "12.1 What is an exploit?" an exploit. Look, I know from dealings with you in the past that you have trouble with logical reasoning, but this is ridiculous. You have EVEN BOLDED the part that proves you wrong. To be an exploit in that definition an exploit is to "use the game mechanics in such a way as they were not intended for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over other players" The point is, EVERYTHING BOB did WAS an intended purpose of the game mechanics and therefore the advantage ISNT UNFAIR.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 08:43:00 - [37] Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: putukas Read what you are saying!!! Friendly fire is exploit and against EULA Aggro timer from aggro is exploit and against EULA Are you realy so retarded??? No i'm saying that a friendly fire should not cause an agression timer YOU ARE ENTITLED TO THAT OPINION But CCP CLEARLY think otherwise! SO IT IS NOT AN EXPLOIT. Jesus ******* christ you are so dense.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 08:44:00 - [38] Originally by: Gallente Caliente Originally by: Edde Bebbi I've read it 10 times, and I've applied 4 years of knowledge of dealing with CCP at every level. You are trying to say that metagaming = exploiting, and that is simply retarded. If the functioning was all intended, then there CAN BE NO EXPLOIT. Just as instajumps were metagaming but wernt an exploit because warping to a BM is supposed to work and BMing 15km off a gate is supposed to work. you cant just say READ THE EULA when it and history supports what i am saying. Make an argument or stfu Keep reading it then, CCP is who determines what an exploit is, not whether or not its possible in game. I redirect you to my post here. Anyone with any common sense can see what constitutes an exploit. CCP does and they have yet to address this scenario. However using how they've addressed other possible yet dirty scenarios, its a very safe assumption that this is an exploit. Why?
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 08:44:00 - [39] Originally by: Gallente Caliente Originally by: Edde Bebbi The point is, EVERYTHING BOB did WAS an intended purpose of the game mechanics and therefore the advantage ISNT UNFAIR. Wrong. You're a fool if you think CCP intends for people to die while logged off and having no knowledge that they've been agressed. That's this scenario, what are you talking about now? Damage logs? If he had them turned of its his fault : If a bob inty had done the damage he would have been equally unaware.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:04:00 - [40] Originally by: Zrevak Ashek The point is that this is a dubious exloit of a gamemechanic intended for the purpous of punishing players for logging off in the middle of a fight to save their pod or ship. This was NOT the goddamned case with WOTANKINS Titan. Far from it! ..and THERE lies the goddamned exploit! Is it so goddamned hard to understand, you frackin morons? No, thats simply one of the effects. The intended purpose was to make people who have been agressed remain in space for 15minutes. Which is exactly what happens.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:13:00 - [41] Originally by: Gallente Caliente Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Gallente Caliente Originally by: Edde Bebbi The point is, EVERYTHING BOB did WAS an intended purpose of the game mechanics and therefore the advantage ISNT UNFAIR. Wrong. You're a fool if you think CCP intends for people to die while logged off and having no knowledge that they've been agressed. That's this scenario, what are you talking about now? Damage logs? If he had them turned of its his fault : If a bob inty had done the damage he would have been equally unaware. How do you see a damage log when you've hit the escape button and are about to hit quit? And IN THIS SCENARIO there's no way a bob inty could've done it thanks to the POS he was parked at. As I said before CCP has the final say, however seeing how they have treated other circumstances (wreck shooting), this is obviously an abuse of a game mechanic. How is that BoBs fault?
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:14:00 - [42] Originally by: Zrevak Ashek Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Zrevak Ashek The point is that this is a dubious exloit of a gamemechanic intended for the purpous of punishing players for logging off in the middle of a fight to save their pod or ship. This was NOT the goddamned case with WOTANKINS Titan. Far from it! ..and THERE lies the goddamned exploit! Is it so goddamned hard to understand, you frackin morons? No, thats simply one of the effects. The intended purpose was to make people who have been agressed remain in space for 15minutes. Which is exactly what happens. This is only your supposed interpretations of the wording. Nothing more! Being the BOB lover that you are, you will continue to twist anything in order to come out on top in this argument, and I predict Rightous Fury will follow you The exact same argument applies to everyone disagreeing such as you. The difference is what Righteous and I are saying is BACKED UP by what actually happens ingame!
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 11:05:00 - [43] Originally by: Jarjar Originally by: August Personage d2 have also stated their pilot logged off, no h4xsploitz here guys. bob used a tactic within the game mechanics, REGARDLESS of whether that was the intended use of said mechanic it is not an exploit imo Read up on the very definition of "exploit". Hint: It has something to do with using a game mechanic in a way that it was not intended to be used to gain un unfair advantage. As has been said over a dozen times, the game mechanics ARE INTENDED TO MAKE YOUR SHIP STAY IN SPACE FOR 15MINS AFTER AGGRESSION.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 11:15:00 - [44] Originally by: Jarjar Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Jarjar Originally by: August Personage d2 have also stated their pilot logged off, no h4xsploitz here guys. bob used a tactic within the game mechanics, REGARDLESS of whether that was the intended use of said mechanic it is not an exploit imo Read up on the very definition of "exploit". Hint: It has something to do with using a game mechanic in a way that it was not intended to be used to gain un unfair advantage. As has been said over a dozen times, the game mechanics ARE INTENDED TO MAKE YOUR SHIP STAY IN SPACE FOR 15MINS AFTER AGGRESSION. Yes, but are the game mechanics really supposed to leave the pilot in question without a clue? If I play blindfolded then I wont know if I am agressed. Similarly If he plays without dmg notifications on HOW CAN HE EXPECT TO KNOW if he is aggressed or not. It would seem obvious to anyone with half a brain that if there is a concern people will agress you, then 15mins before you log you turn damage indicators back on, or at the very least glance at your log before quitting. ITS HIS FAULT.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 11:37:00 - [45] Originally by: Shirei Originally by: Edde Bebbi If I play blindfolded then I wont know if I am agressed. Similarly If he plays without dmg notifications on HOW CAN HE EXPECT TO KNOW if he is aggressed or not. It would seem obvious to anyone with half a brain that if there is a concern people will agress you, then 15mins before you log you turn damage indicators back on, or at the very least glance at your log before quitting. ITS HIS FAULT. It depends on the exact timing. If he announced on TS more or less exactly when he was logging off, he could have been hit while he was in the esc-menu to quit (if he was playing full-screen) or after he closed his client, but before the server registered it. That would have to be rather lucky timing though, so I guess there is only one person who knows. Even then, fortunate timing does not an exploit make.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 11:39:00 - [46] Originally by: Storm Child Edited by: Storm Child on 17/02/2007 11:31:06 Edited by: Storm Child on 17/02/2007 11:29:10 Personally I don't think it's an exploit, but it's certainly a dirty tactic and I'm absolutley disgusted that this was a plot using yet another internal turncoat. It's hard to believe that people can sink to such a level in order to score a titan kill. Are BoB so weak that this is the only method they can think of to survive? The sooner BoB is defeated the better in my opinion. Hopefully this will strengthen the allies resolve to achieve this. How did your allies in Goonswarm and RA find out about the LV 'titan' in construction?
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 11:41:00 - [47] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Jarjar Originally by: August Personage d2 have also stated their pilot logged off, no h4xsploitz here guys. bob used a tactic within the game mechanics, REGARDLESS of whether that was the intended use of said mechanic it is not an exploit imo Read up on the very definition of "exploit". Hint: It has something to do with using a game mechanic in a way that it was not intended to be used to gain un unfair advantage. As has been said over a dozen times, the game mechanics ARE INTENDED TO MAKE YOUR SHIP STAY IN SPACE FOR 15MINS AFTER AGGRESSION. No, the game mechanics are intended to stop players from logging to save their ships or pods while in combat No, thats just how your interpreting it now your allies titan has died. Freighters stay hostile aggroed when webbed into warp, this is the same.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 11:42:00 - [48] Originally by: Shirei Originally by: Edde Bebbi Even then, fortunate timing does not an exploit make. Depends on what your definition of an exploit is. It is certainly abusing the aggro timer for something it was not intended for. Can mining, Instajumps, Freighter Webbing, Carrier Hauling blah blah blah
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 11:56:00 - [49] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 17/02/2007 11:48:49 It's actually fun to see that whatever we are saying and showing from the EULA, Edde Bebbi are still defending Band Of Cheaters, whatever we say. Lets just petition this ass for beeing an idiot that only trolls and whine + are defending BoC when the EULA clearly shows that Edde Bebbi is wrong in all ways. He's only here to make peoples angry. I would honestly have said exactly the same thing about you. Lost any faction NPCing ships recently?
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 12:31:00 - [50] No you have already demonstrated your complete lack of comprehension skills already. The aggro timer is to prevent people logging off while aggrod. Its not to prevent people from running from fights, thats just an effect. Anyway, the titan ran from the covert ops's smartbomb :P
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 17:09:00 - [51] At the end of the day, if this was a goonswarm or RA kill on an LV titan, Everyone, and by that I mean 99% of you flamers, would be saying "good job, nice move" Why were there no crys of OMG LAME when they brought 1000 to LVs titan in production, used the first 200 to crash the node and the rest to hold the system while the defenders tried to log on. Why were there no crys of 'lame' from you guys when D2 were caught using an official website to get BoB IPs? Why didnt you cry 'lame' when an ISS director offlined an entire systems worth of towers for goonswarm? How is THAT intended by the game mechanics? Why wernt you crying lame about the recent hacking on so many different servers? I'll tell you why; because when its done to BoB and allies it is considered genious, when its done by them its considered lame. Thats all there is to it. You Hate BoB.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 17:14:00 - [52] Originally by: Nicholai Pestot First I have to apologise. BoB, I was convinced you exploited when I read the other threads.Given resent events it is a logical conclusion but, it would seem, an unfair one in this instance. You have still, however, manipulated game mechanics in a way that was never intended in order to kill an opponent who was not even playing/logged in at the time. I respect your drive to succeed and knowledge of game mechanics but there comes a point when you have to step back and realise that if you continue winning like this, Eve will loose. It will loose all sense of fun, it will loose any reason to play in the 'hi-end' of 0.0 warfare and it will loose players. Your execution and organisation was flawless. Your wisdom and foresight was non-existent.You are the definition of educated fools How is this different from corp theft or spy offlining towers? it isnt. Those things are all done by BoBs enemies in huge amounts. Get a grip on reality.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 17:23:00 - [53] Originally by: Nicholai Pestot Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Nicholai Pestot First I have to apologise. BoB, I was convinced you exploited when I read the other threads.Given resent events it is a logical conclusion but, it would seem, an unfair one in this instance. You have still, however, manipulated game mechanics in a way that was never intended in order to kill an opponent who was not even playing/logged in at the time. I respect your drive to succeed and knowledge of game mechanics but there comes a point when you have to step back and realise that if you continue winning like this, Eve will loose. It will loose all sense of fun, it will loose any reason to play in the 'hi-end' of 0.0 warfare and it will loose players. Your execution and organisation was flawless. Your wisdom and foresight was non-existent.You are the definition of educated fools How is this different from corp theft or spy offlining towers? it isnt. Those things are all done by BoBs enemies in huge amounts. Get a grip on reality. They are equally guilty. Two wrongs do not make a right.BoB have just taken it to a whole new level and the trouble with arms escalations of any type is that they are almost impossible to reverse. surely you have to consider IP leaking from an official Eve- site worse, or hacking other organisations forums?
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 17:32:00 - [54] Originally by: Mss Alt Originally by: Edde Bebbi At the end of the day, if this was a goonswarm or RA kill on an LV titan, Everyone, and by that I mean 99% of you flamers, would be saying "good job, nice move" Why were there no crys of OMG LAME when they brought 1000 to LVs titan in production, used the first 200 to crash the node and the rest to hold the system while the defenders tried to log on. Why were there no crys of 'lame' from you guys when D2 were caught using an official website to get BoB IPs? Why didnt you cry 'lame' when an ISS director offlined an entire systems worth of towers for goonswarm? How is THAT intended by the game mechanics? Well ... unethical but ingame mechanics are ok with me (spys and other things like this) But using a spy to agrro a ship inside the forcefield (which btw is an exploit) that's about as lame as it goes. omfg I cant believe people are still claiming this. D2 have ADMITTED it WASNT IN A FORCEFIELD. It was smarbombed OUTSIDE.

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